tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2249851329008146395.post1998602283928781233..comments2023-10-30T09:11:12.922-07:00Comments on Clouded Outlook: Speculation is the main driver behind higher world food prices - the evidence is there in the dataAlice Cookhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05753570123987780947noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2249851329008146395.post-54862515071092813662011-02-09T13:33:21.415-08:002011-02-09T13:33:21.415-08:00shargash brings to mind that chili peppers, consid...shargash brings to mind that chili peppers, considered a staple in indonesia, are up fivefold, and that the indian cabinet met in an emergency session to deal with the rising costs of onions, which were up threefold, because two previous govts were toppled by rising onion prices...<br /><br />http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-02/chili-peppers-indicate-inflation-heating-up-commentary-by-william-pesek.html<br /><br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12158798<br /><br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/stephanieflanders/2011/01/commodities_can_still_shock.html<br /><br />as perishables, neither chilis or onions fits your speculation speculation...rjshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15681812432224138582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2249851329008146395.post-7027115226119142052011-02-09T12:49:31.782-08:002011-02-09T12:49:31.782-08:00When commodity markets are operating normally, the...When commodity markets are operating normally, there is a certain buffer in both supply and demand. If prices rise, supply (or substitutes) come online to dampen prices. There is likewise a certain amount of demand that will surface if prices drop.<br /><br />That is when commodity markets are operating normally. When the world is coming up against the limits of growth, there is no supply buffer. When prices spike, they spike very high until demand is reduced. The undershoot of supply relative to demand is cleared and prices very quickly come back down to the trend (i.e. prices crash).<br /><br />The main problem with the speculation argument is that some resources have no futures contracts, meaning there is no feasible way to speculate other than buying the physical. Iron ore is an example. One test of your thesis would be the price of iron ore. If it kept to trend, that would tend to support speculation as the driver for other commodities. However, iron ore prices have been just as whacked as food and energy. This I think falsifies your hypothesis. However, it is consistent with a "limits of growth" hypothesis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2249851329008146395.post-88148476788404705392011-02-09T12:23:33.266-08:002011-02-09T12:23:33.266-08:00There's no way that speculation can drive up p...There's no way that speculation can drive up prices without also raising inventories. Either speculators buy food to hold in inventory, or else they buy futures or forward contracts, which drives up the futures/forward price relative to the spot price and induces arbitrageurs to hold inventories. So where are the rising inventories that are predicted by the speculative explanation for rising food prices?Andy Harlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17582263872850949568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2249851329008146395.post-55692384273309026512011-02-09T11:01:13.549-08:002011-02-09T11:01:13.549-08:00"I said so" is sufficient when something..."I said so" is sufficient when something is self-evident. Look at the statement you are demanding "scientific" proof for:<br /><br />"An aggregate food price index will smooth out commodity specific shocks."<br /><br />Duh! Using an aggregate is sensible because people are probably going to eat the same amount of food day in and day out, and if it isn't "pizza", it will be "cheeseburgers."<br /><br />And if their budget is $5 for lunch, it is probably going to stay about the same, and if "Pizza Hut" runs out of of pizza dough and the $5 all you can eat buffet, then the person goes to the Chinese restaurant buffet, or buys 3 $1 double cheeseburgers at McDonalds.<br /><br />This search for a "scientific" study stuff can be way OVERDONE. <br /><br />Squeeky Fromm<br />Girl ReporterAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2249851329008146395.post-90755213326158618222011-02-09T11:00:55.159-08:002011-02-09T11:00:55.159-08:00The “increase in demand produces a proportional in...The “increase in demand produces a proportional increase in cost” only works in the linear portion of the demand/supply curves.<br /><br />Towards the edge, the cost curve goes asymptotic as people are willing to pay significantly more instead of eating less.<br /><br />So, you could be understating the impacts the supply/demand side of things. <br /><br />Problem is, if farmers respond to high prices and flood next year’s markets and push prices back into the flatter portion of the cost curve, then how would you distinguish that from a speculative bubble?shaunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01264662245578925760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2249851329008146395.post-24572414640410593372011-02-09T05:23:00.026-08:002011-02-09T05:23:00.026-08:00"An aggregate food price index will smooth ou..."An aggregate food price index will smooth out commodity specific shocks." Do you have some support for that, other than "I said so."? That's like saying that an aggregate energy index will smooth out fluctuations in any of its components, or an aggregate price index will smooth out any price changes. Doesn't that depend on how the index is constructed [weighted]? Is there no shock possible that could move such an index? I'm pretty sure war in Iran would cause a large enough blip to move an energy index. <br /><br />RJS is right. Most of what you're ignoring is food being converted to fuel. What happened to oil prices in those two timeframes? But you should do a better job than "I said so" to support the index argument.kjmclarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00490417628052004621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2249851329008146395.post-34284666299859926472011-02-09T03:04:29.336-08:002011-02-09T03:04:29.336-08:00re: 40% of US corn crop now going into gastanks (c...re: 40% of US corn crop now going into gastanks (chart):<br /><br />http://peakwatch.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452403c69e20148c8191818970c-pirjshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15681812432224138582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2249851329008146395.post-36084389749745642652011-02-09T02:53:54.763-08:002011-02-09T02:53:54.763-08:00yep. destruction of 1/3 the russian wheat crop, ha...yep. destruction of 1/3 the russian wheat crop, half the pakistani wheat & cotton crops, half of china in drought, south african wheat fields under water, a weather related poor crop in canada, and flooding covering an area the size of texas & california combined in the agricultural part of australia has nothing to do with it…<br /><br />to say nothing of 170 million tons of the US corn crop being diverted to ethanol, which would be enough to feed 330 million people at what the UN considers a sustainable level…rjshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15681812432224138582noreply@blogger.com